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Professor Israel Gutman
Professor Israel Gutman was born in Warsaw in 1923 and was a member of the Hashomer Hatzair youth movement, the Jewish underground resistance in Warsaw, and the Jewish Combat Organization in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. He was a prisoner at the Majdanek, Auschwitz, and Mauthausen concentration camps. After the end of World War II he was active in the Jewish and Zionist youth organizations in Austria and in Italy. In 1946, he immigrated to Israel (then British Mandatory Palestine) and was a member of Lehavot Habashan Kibbutz until 1971. In 1961, he testified at the Eichmann Trial. He was also a founding member of the Moreshet, Mordechai Anielewicz Memorial Holocaust Study and Research Center, and later became the organization’s director. In 1975, he received his PHD from the Hebrew University for his essay “The Resistance Movement and the Armed Uprising of Warsaw Jews in the Ghetto 1939-1943”. As part of his academic activity at the Hebrew University he was made director of the Rita and Max Hieber Academic Department for the Study of the Holocaust and the History of Eastern and Central European Jewry. Between 1988 and 1985 he served as head of the Contemporary Jewry Institute in the Hebrew University. In 1989, the “Holocaust Encyclopedia” which he edited was published.
Between 1993 and 1996, he headed the International Institute for Holocaust Research, and between 1996 and 2000, he was Chief Historian in Yad Vashem and later served as academic advisor. He was a member of the Yad Vashem committee, the International Institute for Holocaust Research, the Yad Vashem Scientific Committee, and member of Yad Vashem Studies Periodical Editorial Staff. Professor Gutman was the academic advisor of the new Holocaust History Museum, opened in 2005.
Professor Gutman received many awards for his publications, among them the Shlonsky Award for Literature, the Yizhak Sade Award for Military Studies, the Poland Jewish Association Award, the Landau Science and Research Award, and also received an honorary doctorate from the Warsaw University.
We met Professor Israel Gutman for an interview about his life during the Holocaust and about the concept of testimony.
“The sound of the artillery and the explosions had not yet died down [upon the onset of World War II and the occupation of Warsaw] and communication passed among the youth movement nest members. A summon to an urgent meeting was circulating among the shelters. Apparently, the Rimavská Street nest has not been demolished and the youth group members who were called to gather in it, making their way among the debris and shattered glass, awaited the news with excitement. They have been notified that this was to be their last meeting. Decades later, Yorek (Israel Gutman) remembered well the anticipation and the disappointment: ‘we went to the nest hoping to meet the others there and hold on to something which will connect us to back the past. The rooms were broken empty and neglected. In the small yard, next to the shed, copies of the Education for the Youth Group Member, published but yet undistributed, were rolling on the ground. The book was caught together with us in the turbulence of war.’ […] Desperation began to settle among the nest’s youths who were left alone. For many of them the movement was the only stable crutch in their lives, and when the flags were folded all hope for mutual guarantee and comradery was lost. Again each one was on his own, lost boys among burning buildings.”1
Could you tell us about the first days of the war as a youth movement member?
I was a member of Hashomer Hatzair [Young Guard] Movement in Warsaw. I was a member of a team that was organized during the war thanks to Mordechai Anielewicz. At the beginning of the war, when the Nazis advanced effortlessly through Poland, they extinguished normal life in Polish cities, and Jewish lives in particular. In Warsaw, we experienced it through the disintegration of the youth movement activity.
The leadership of the movement feared for the fate of the members, and mainly for the lives of the leaders, and came to the conclusion that no one should carry membership cards or identification papers associating them with any movement activity. They even instructed us never to present ourselves as movement members.
This was during the first weeks of the war. After that something happened behind our backs. We walked back home miserably, while the movement’s instructors organized their getaway to the east. They couldn’t have known what would happen in the USSR territories, but since the Germans moved eastwards, they thought it would be best to flee. Not us, the youths, but the instructors and the leadership members. We weren’t presented with the option to flee, but the leaders and organizers of the movement left Warsaw while we remained. At the same time the existing Jewish leadership disappeared as well, or they preferred that its existence might not become known, assuming that the Germans would be looking for it, arrest its members and do whatever they do to them.
Of course, we were aware of the Nazi antisemitism and its nature, but we couldn’t have known that this antisemitism would bring about the murder of all Jews, not just of the political activists, not of people of a certain age, but of entire Jewish families. At that period, we didn’t know that, and neither did anyone else in the world. That’s because the murder began only about two years later. At the beginning of the war, Jews took part in the fighting as Polish citizens since the Germans fought against Poland.
“The youth movement was a place of exhilaration for its members. As opposed to the home, which faced the problems of everyday life, in the movement ideas, books and world affairs were discussed. During the war it also became a place for mutual help.”2
Was there a change in the nature of the activity of the movement after the onset of World War ll?
At the time, we were only concerned with studying the history of the Jewish people, singing songs and having discussions in preparation for our immigrating to Israel. It’s strange when we think about it today. For example, it was clear that we couldn’t smoke cigarettes, and that there should be no intimate relations between the male and female members. It was clear that our adult lives will begin only once we emigrate from Poland to Israel. Now the dream of immigrating to Israel was shattered. So much so, that not only could we not live there, we couldn’t even correspond, and no one could come from there to us, despite Poland being the place with the largest Jewish population.
Before the war, family problems, which arose after the start of the war and from then on, were never an issue. Now, during the war, a group of instructors and pupils organized for that purpose. There was also a rich man, a father of one of the members, who contributed to that. He was an owner of a factory which was “nationalized ” by the Germans, but they let him keep his position because he was an efficient professional and managed the factory well. He made sure that Hashomer Hatzair members could live in the factory without working and carry on with their activity and go and work outside. That way, they had a place in Mila Street. It was unusual in that reality.
How did people deal with the shattered dream after the onset of the war, when immigration to Israel became impossible?
On April 1940, several leadership members of Dror and Hashomer Hatzair decided to go back to Warsaw to their pupils, among them Mordechai Anielewicz from Hashomer Hatzair and Antek Zuckerman from the Dror movement. This group which returned became the group that reorganized the movements and adapted them to the exiting circumstances.
Little by little, something which did not exist before was organized. Members of the movements, our movement for example, left their family homes and organized independently. In our first meeting after the reorganization, I remember we sang and cried. Actually, we created a way of life which was completely organized. At this stage intimate relations between male and female members were allowed, and indeed began forming. That was family, in the spirit of the movement.
At that time we also published underground periodicals. That was a very important undertaking. The periodicals were published by a group which gathered around Dr. Emanuel Ringelblum. The events that followed during the fighting were documented by the youth movements, among them ours. All this documentation is lost.
(Among the writers in the underground press was also Israel Gutman, who served as Assistant Editor of the youth movement’s newspaper “El Al”. Here is a segment from the only article that survived, titled “A walk through the Ghetto Streets…”
“Ghetto, a word that is a historical legacy, a symbol of the tragedy of Jews in their suffering. A horrid memory, walking like a ghost among the Jews… We live in the 20th century, a century of civilization and crime… I go to Nalewki Street, a street steeped in the deep tradition of Warsaw Jewry. A severed street, amputated, divided into two worlds between which a soldier wearing a helmet stands.”3
Could you tell us how Dr. Emanuel Ringelblum’s documentation project “Oneg Shabat” came about?
Ringelblum was an exceptional man. I knew him. The movement contacted him. He was left-wing politically, but a Zionist Jew. He mainly taught subjects of a scientific nature, not relating to any movement in particular. This changed when he was sent to Zbaszyn Camp to help Jewish Polish citizens who immigrated to Germany. They were deported from Germany, and denied re-entry by the Polish authorities. Ringelblum was a witness to this human tragedy of families, children, adults and old. Later on, when his relatives suggested he should leave Warsaw and flee from the Germans, he rejected the idea. For him, fulfilling his duty as a Jew was most crucial at that time. We knew him only later. In the ghetto he had a role in the life of the Jews and a special interest in children, movement members, existing organizations, in house councils. His contribution was very important. Ringelblum’s activity can be seen in that in that context - major organization leaders fled Poland on the eve of German occupation while he stayed.
When I began trying to systematically understand the sequence of events– not only in the context of the movement, but scientifically, I discovered something exceptional: A group of Jews organised independently (Ringelblum was key to this my opinion), collected money, established schools and shelters, and provided food for children. In the houses in the ghetto, where hundreds lived, mutual help also was organized, and those who did not have money, not all of them, but a large part of them, gave some money as a loan, hoping it will be re-payed at the end of the war. After the war there was no one to claim it. I, for example, used to go to work, and I didn’t go to work because I had to - I helped the ill and elderly, among others, because they gave us a little money that we could use for sustenance.
Of course, whatever we did, it was a miserable life. I don’t know if there were ever harsher human conditions in the history of Europe.
How did your family cope with this reality?
This is what I felt and many of my friends felt. I expected from the Jewish society to give us a way to support us mentally maybe – spiritually. How to forget our trauma; that we lived before we came to Israel. I felt that I did not receive enough support, enough help, and I was not alone in that feeling. There were many of my friends who felt the same.
The German occupation separated Jews and Poles. When they were first put in Ghettos (In November 1940) Jews were simply trapped, they had no possibility to work and behave as before. They no longer had direct contact with the outside world. The Jews in Poland weren’t very rich except for a certain class of wealthy property owners that was influential at the time. These type of people were mainly in commerce and were very influential - the others didn’t have enough bread. The struggle to provide food for the children, for the families, was an important mission. And I can also admit it was a problem in our family. Our family has one small advantage, my father who worked for a long time in commerce, although unsuccessful, went to work in a factory owned by very influential Jews in Poland. That helped us. But my father died young, and so did my older sister, and I was left with my younger sister who was 19 years old, and with a mother who was ill. I couldn’t graduate from high-school, but I belonged to the youth movement, which was very important. I clearly remember my mother telling me I have to be take care of the girl.
“The last months of life in the ghetto, prior to the mass deportation, were lived in a reality of increasing tension. More news and rumors about deportations from ghettos and about settlements in occupied Poland. The relative improvement in living conditions was that more people could find work. This situation, as well as some encouraging news from the front created some sense of stability and optimism concerning the chance of survival. Between July and September 1942 more than 300,000 were deported from the Warsaw Ghetto, mainly to Treblinka Extermination Camp. At the end of the deportation, in mid-September 1942, there were about 60,000 people left in the ghetto. The new ghetto was divided into three areas […] and in actual fact, it was no longer a ghetto, but a labor camp. The Jews that remained in the Ghetto now, mostly young men and women, lone survivors from their families who lost all of their loved ones, were changed. During the deportation the Jews were under constant stress and all their senses and strength were focused on one thing: to survive and remain in the ghetto rather, and not to be sent to the Umschlagplatz - the deportation square. After the deportations ended there was time for some self-examination. It was clear that no one is safe, that their lives were merely extended, and that at some point a final deportation is expected. They suffered from loneliness, from guilt for abandoning their loved ones and for failing to protect them. There was disappointment because of the lack of resistance, and because they did not even try to defend themselves against the hated Jewish policemen. More and more people were saying they will not be taken by the Germans without a fight. On April 18th [1943] news was received from the Aryan side that on the next day the deportation will be resumed, and that this time it will be the final deportation. Members of the [Jewish Combat] Organization went door to door to warn about tomorrow. The Ghetto was surrounded by German soldiers assisted by auxiliary forces and the Polish Police. Every 25 meters there was an armed soldier. That night the residents of the Ghetto began to move into underground bunkers."4
Could you tell us what happened during and after the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?
When the Germans entered the ghetto to take the Jews and murder them, combat teams came out of hiding. At the time I was in the place where medical assistance was given to these youngsters who took part in the uprising. By the way, I had a small handgun which I used. I was hit by a grenade thrown by the Germans and to this day the eye that was hit is blind, and I have shrapnel in my body ever since.
“On the third or fourth day of the Warsaw uprising I was hit by grenade shrapnel. I was placed by the Jewish Combat Organization, which I have been a member of since its foundation, in charge of security of a bunker where a team of Organization members was stationed. The bunker was on 30 Franciszkanska Street. On the third or fourth day of the uprising there were Nazis in the building, and they set a part of the building on fire. We waited until the evening and came out (four people, two of them armed with guns) to put out the fire. Up until that day the Nazis didn’t dare to go into the ghetto area at night, and we assumed we wouldn’t run into them. However, when we got to one of the attics we suddenly heard footsteps, saw a beam of light from a flashlight, and two gendarmes entered the room we were in. The four of us hit the ground. The attic was triangular and we huddled to one of the corners as tightly as we could, wishing we could merge with wall. As I mentioned, two of our team were armed with guns, me and another friend, […] when we were on the ground he shot first from his position. His bullet missed. The Nazis ordered us to get up, and they started to search us. I was next. While they were searching the first man, I pulled the trigger of my little gun, which was entirely hidden in my palm. At the time I regretted being given such a small gun, but I was lucky. I aimed my raised hand straight at the Nazi’s mouth. The attic was completely dark, and the soldier’s mouth didn’t even close. I pulled the trigger. But the shot never came. While standing with my arms in the air, I released the safety and pulled the trigger again. The soldier screamed, the second one ran to the entrance, and threw a grenade before he escaped. Two people were injured. I was hit in the eyes, the right one in particular, and the second one was Yulek Winter, […] Yulek’s injuries were minor, and the shrapnel only hit his hand. We managed to escape through pre-prepared passages between the attic rooms, and after a few minutes the three of us were back in the bunker.5”
In your affidavit before your testimony in the Eichmann trial you say the following:
“We were led in rows of five to the Umschlag. It was the last time I walked in the city I was born in, where I have spent twenty years of my life. The ghetto was in ruins. [There were] bodies in the streets. We arrived at the Umschlag, and were put in, or more precisely, crammed into a train cart. […] Treblinka was crowded at the time, so some of the transports from Warsaw were sent to Majdanek. And since not all Majdanek prisoners were immediately put to death, and some of them were left in the concentration camp, I was among those admitted into the camp.6”
Could you tell us about what happened to you after the deportation from the Warsaw Ghetto?
I was the only one [left alive] from the group that was captured. It’s true that there were others, but they didn’t survive. They were sent to the camp, and so was I, to Majdanek. I couldn’t work there so I was put in some sort of a hospital. Jews who were hospitalized, after a while, if they didn’t recover enough to work, would be killed. I couldn’t work. I remember being somewhere, and a Polish doctor saw my wound and asked, “Were you among the fighters in the Warsaw Gehtto uprising? And I didn’t want to say anything because I couldn’t trust a Pole not to side with Germans. After a day, I was transferred to a nearby place. A Jewish man worked there and he asked “Do you know the Polish doctor here?” I answered that I didn’t. He said “He transferred you to a place where you are the only [Jew] among Poles and Germans”. I was there for two weeks, and then I was sent to Auschwitz. When we arrived there they had to register the people and their personal information. In front of me there was a Jewish young man from Greece who didn’t speak Polish (or German), He spoke a little Yiddish he picked up. I stood behind him and he couldn’t speak with the registering clerk so I gave the information instead. The clerk asked me: “Where are you from, Warsaw?” and we discovered we have a mutual Polish acquaintance. Two hours later, my name was being called: “Gutman”. There are many Gutmans and I didn’t react at all. And then they added “The new one”, I stuck my head out and received food for the first time, something I didn’t have later while inside the camp. From then on that man, Wlodzimierz Zawadzki, started taking care of me and even visited in the barracks. He was happy I told him about the fate of the Jews in Warsaw and about the uprising. Later, when the Germans came to take the Jews, he let me into his room. Later I would clean there. Zawadzki not only gave me food, I had enough to share with others. That was unusual. One day he brought to me a young man (who didn’t survive) who was a member of Hashomer Hatzair. He asked me questions, and when he saw I knew everyone he started crying in excitement. After the war I never met Zawadzki [again]. He was in Warsaw and was much older than me. He had a problem with his leg, and as it was I didn’t think he could have survived. Despite going to Poland on behalf of many organizations I couldn’t trace him or his family.
In Warsaw I had a girlfriend. She was sent to the women’s camp at Auschwitz. She was an exceptional woman. She died four or five months before I could help her. She had a cousin who later worked in a place I was working in, and she told me my girlfriend had lost the will to live, because she thought I hadn't survived because of my injury.
In Auschwitz I was a member of the underground organization. I worked at the [Weichsel-Union-Metallwerke] munitions factory within Auschwitz and together with a friend, who was religious, we transferred explosives into the camp. That was done through Roza Robota, a member of the underground organization who was also a member of Hashomer Hatzair. I never saw her. The explosives were transferred but the revolt didn’t happen. There was a joint organization of different political factions. Eventually, the Germans captured Roza, and I remember that when they realized she was a member of a resistance we received a note from her. “Stay strong – I know they will kill me, I am the only one who knows about you, but I won’t give up any names.” No one from the Auschwitz underground organization survived. I didn’t write books about these personal accounts. However, a book was written about me.
Why didn’t you write your story?
I don’t know. It was difficult for me to put in writing my personal story when all my friends weren’t alive anymore. When I arrived in Israel I noticed that the Dror Movement members had representation, and therefore their story was highlighted. We, the Hashomer Hatzair members, were represented, but not to the same extent. That must have influenced me, and I realized I should write about all that happened and the friends I knew so well and weren’t alive, and so I did. It’s important to me to clarify that that I did it not to present myself as a fighter, although I won’t go far as to say that it became a major historical chapter. My aim was to document the historical events, the people and their actions throughout those years.
However, I decided not to make a name for myself, and so the things I wrote, I wrote as the history of a group of friends, so it won’t be discernible that I took part in the events. I didn’t want to write my personal story. Although at my age now I think it should have been done.
However, several years ago some chapters from my life story were published in Ada Pagis' book "Days of Darkness, Moments of Grace" [Hebrew].
However, in the Eichmann trial you did tell your story. What then, motivated you to testify?
At the Eichmann trial they asked that the testimonies given by the witnesses will present the general history of that period. They wanted me to testify only about what happened in Auschwitz. However, I asked that they will let me say at least a few words about the “Hashomer Hatzair” movement and the Jewish Combat Organization since there was no documentation from that time about these events. I arrived at the conclusion that these events should be presented as historical documents in a wider context that includes information about different organizations, while at the time the documentation was more movement related.
As [I] said before, in my writing I was very careful not to create a political, movement related dispute. For me, these events are too severe to turn them a political debate. To write about it and turn the events into a part of an argument is taking advantage of the Jews who aren’t alive anymore.
What you say implies that the political aspect was a major motive in the documentation of the history of the Holocaust when it started, and that it was written from a political angle. What in your opinion will characterize the nature of future documentation?
If there is no one to tell, it will never be told. If there are individuals and they speak, it is their duty to speak not only about themselves. As a historian, I wrote in a way that won’t reveal that I took part in the events. I also don’t think I was exceptional. I did my best to collectively document what happened, as a researcher of the period.
In Poland there was a period of “being either a Zionist or a Socialist”. It was the spirit of the time, it wasn’t easy, but whoever led the public believed they were leading it towards something positive and constructive.
The appearance of Jewish warriors in the country after the war greatly influenced the politics and the leaders, who conceptualized Jews in a different way: Jews were merchants, dishonest, doing thing improperly, haters of non-Jews. These images characterized the image of the Jew at the time.
But today, I think our political life isn’t based on values. The outlook is different and focuses on “who gets what, and how it is divided”. In the past things were different. Today people are too focused on self-fulfilment and less on the good of the public. My Judaism, [relates] to the Jews I saw every day. It’s hard to understand. It was a huge challenge. Whoever is in politics these days, what does he care?
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